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Re: Ad Yurii Gloriam (Was Re: maize in ancient india: strong

Peter,

We should ask....

Since all ancient maize was created in Mesoamerica, exactly which of the
approximately 28 man made strains made it to India?

In that way we will know where the Mesoamerican origin was.  If the
proponents don't know their work is suspect and incomplete.  God do I hate
garbage.

Paul

Peter van Rossum <pmv100@psu.edu> wrote in article
<pmv100.53.32F0E9DA@psu.edu>...
> In article <E4o88D.47K.0.sheppard@torfree.net> bg364@torfree.net (Yuri
Kuchinsky) writes:
> >Peter van Rossum (pmv100@psu.edu) wrote:
> >: Seems that a guy by the name of Shri Gosh was working on a compendium
> >: of archaeological excavations in India when he died in 1981.  The 
> >: volume finally got published as "An Encyclopaedia of Indian
Archaeology" 
> >: in 1989 (so its a bit dated now).  Here's a little of what it says
right 
> >: up front:
> 
> >: "In the post-Independence period the tempo of archaeological field-
> >: work increased considerably and COVERED ALL PERIODS OF HUMAN 
> >: CULTURE." (p. xiv)
> 
> >: "Prehistoric investigations adopted new approaches, working on 
> >: geomorphology palaeontology, PALAEOBOTANY, and palaeo-climatology" (p.
xiv)
> 
> >: "On [the] protohistoric and HISTORIC SIDE, CULTURAL SEQUENCES 
> >: SUPPORTED BY A CHRONOLOGICAL FRAME-WORK, OBTAINED THROUGH 
> >: CAREFULLY OBSERVED VERTICAL EXCAVATIONS, ARE NOW AVAILABLE 
> >: FOR ALL PARTS OF THE COUNTRY." (p. xiv)
> 
> >: "The focus has shifted from the concern for ascertaining the bare 
> >: culture-sequence to RECOVERING OR RECONSTRUCTING THE COMPLETE 
> >: LIFE PATTERN" (p. xv)
> 
> >: Seems to me that if by the late 1970s they were already excavating 
> >: historic sites and looking at dietary remains, I see no reason why 
> >: this process should have discontinued.
> 
> >Well, great, let's see the results of some of these studies if they have
> >been done. I would have thought that Johannessen's opponents would do
> >this, and demonstrate conclusively that maize is lacking in the diet of 
> >the relevant settlements. 
> >
> >The replies of the critics of Johannessen that have been published DO
NOT
> >do this. Instead they go into some questionable statistical studies
> >comparing the carvings to maize. Such studies cannot provide any solid
> >conclusions. 
> >
> >My conclusion is that they (the critics) couldn't do any better, as I
> >assume they tried...
> >Yuri.
> 
> No idiot-stick your conclusion is ridiculous!  The obvious conclusion to
> be reached is that no one is aware of anyone reporting Precolumbian
> corncobs from any Indian sites.  If such remains had been reported then
> Johannessen & Parker should have mentioned them.  Contrary to this they
> actually explicitely state that no such corn cobs have been reported and
> as we've seen the pollen "evidence" they cite is extremely dicey.
> 
> Again you don't understand science.  It is not up to critics of a theory
> to prove that the theory is wrong (in most cases, including this one,
such 
> a disproof is not even possible), it is up to the theory's proponents
> to prove it is correct.  The fact that the maize in Precolumbian India
> proponents have not been able to provide such concrete proof from the
> Indian archaeological record means that at present their theory remains
> on shakey ground.  If they think such remains can be found in the site's
> contents then it is up to them to organize a project to look for such
> remains - don't expect people who don't even believe in your theory to
> try to prove it for you while you piss and moan from the sidelines.
> 
> Until such time as Precolumbian corncobs are reported from an Indian site
> (and as we've seen Indian archaeologists are looking for botanical
remains)
> there is no reason to pursue this theory any further.
> 
> You can now drivel on how ever you want on this topic (I won't waste any
> more time) but unless you can find such remains there is no good proof
> of maize in Precolumbian India.
> 
> Peter van Rossum
> PMV100@PSU.EDU
> 
>
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