Re: Amerindian navigators and Eurocentrism in scholarship

[Bill Perez <p_covalent@xnet.com>]

Yuri Kuchinsky 17784 wrote:
> 
> Bill Perez (p_covalent@xnet.com) wrote:
> : Yuri Kuchinsky 17784 wrote:
> 
>         ...
> 
> : > I mean exactly what I say.
> 
> : That it is "Eurocentric" to believe that only Polynesians travelled long
> : distances in the Pacific prior to the sixteenth century?
> 
> Yes, in so far as Amerindians are not given the recognition for doing the
> same.

Please explain. I do not see the European connection here. It would seem
that Europeans have long been out of the running for "Gold Medal" in the
Pacific long-distance finals. "Miss Congeniality" is worth this much
effort? Or do Polynesians hold a special place in the heart of a
"Eurocentrist?"

> 
>         ...
> 
> : And why would dyed-in-the-wool "Eurocentrists" be so ready to dispense
> : "credit" to Polynesians,
> 
> Because no bigot however misguided can deny the reality that the
> Polynesians were there for ages.

Why not? Because of the sheer volume and quality of the evidence? Why
wouldn't it be suppressed or ignored? You seem to be admitting that the
evidence for long-distance Polynesian voyages is of a much different
order than that for long-distance Amerindian Pacific voyages. Why should
this be so?

And I ask, again, what bearing any of this has on the putative
centrality of European civilization (the basic tenet, I presume, of
"Eurocentrism").

> 
> : while withholding it from South Americans?
> 
> Because bigots and/or ignoramuses in some very high places can and still
> do pretend that this didn't happen. But it did happen.
> 
>         ...
> 
> : At any rate, you did not question. You emphatically asserted:
> : "Eurocentrism has certainly played a role in this area."
> 
> Can you deny this?

Well, I certainly can deny, and did deny, that you simply "questioned
motives." As to your assertion, it must be plain by now that I am
somewhat at a loss to *understand* it, let alone deny it. Clarification
would be nice--that was, after all, my only request. So refresh my
memory: what was the connection with Europe again?

> 
> Actually the out and out _racism_ of the Spanish colonialists played even
> a bigger role in this area. 

Interesting that you use the word "racism." It seems to me that calling
someone a "Eurocentrist" is just a euphemestic way of calling them a
"racist."

> It was the Spanish who destroyed this proud
> chapter of Native history, i.e. the extensive coastal trading networks.

So are you implying that the Spanish are behind the current "bigotry"
and "recognition" thievery? Or are you saying that the "Eurocentrism" of
the distant past has led to the current confusion and ignorance?

> 
> I'm not interested at all in trying to establishing who was more/less
> advanced than someone else.

You have an eccentric way of NOT trying to establish something. This
talk of "credit," of "recognition," of "great achievements." It all
sounds so--I don't know--*European*. Nineteenth-century European, to be
more precise. The kind of stuff that young Adolf greedily imbibed from
his Austrian history teacher, who taught him how the German race was so
unfairly ignored in mainstream historiography, how its "great
achievements" were maliciously suppressed by an academia steeped in
contempt for the German people (Hitler frequently praised his teacher as
the most important influence in his life). I guess he's a posterboy for
"setting the record straight."

> Please don't misinterpret what I said.

You gotta help me out, here.

> All I'm
> trying to do is to point out that these great achievements of the
> Amerindians are being ignored.

Here we go with the "great achievements" drill again. Tell me something,
what is so intrinsically "great" with a capital "G" about tooling around
the Pacific? What if Amerindians DID make these voyages--as slavers, or
genocidal maniacs, wiping out the Easter Islanders, for example? Would
the voyages still be so great? Would you be taking them down a notch in
your ledger? Or would they get extra points for style (or for being more
like Europeans)?

> Politics definitely is a factor here.

It would seem so.