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AZTLAN list: fear of the new?
- Subject: AZTLAN list: fear of the new?
- From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Yuri Kuchinsky)
- Date: 15 Feb 1997 15:18:23 GMT
- Followup-To: sci.archaeology,sci.archaeology.mesoamerican,sci.anthropology
- Newsgroups: sci.archaeology, sci.archaeology.mesoamerican, sci.anthropology
- Organization: Cybertrends
- References: <E5ELGB.7J.email@example.com> <32FFABBD.703D@geocities.com>
- Xref: news.missouri.edu sci.archaeology:41919 sci.archaeology.mesoamerican:4345 sci.anthropology:18183
Thanks for your reply, Will.
Will Flor (firstname.lastname@example.org) wrote:
: Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
: > To make the long story short, my subscription to Aztlan was not to
: > last very long. In fact, I was suspended from the list after about
: > a week. The manner in which this happened is what this post is
: > about. To wit, the listowner of AZTLAN has violated the guidelines
: > of his own list in order to get me off.
: There is always a meta-guideline - if you get the list owner mad
: enough at you, you get kicked off.
Well, this is beginning to sound like living in some sort of a feudal
domain in the middle ages. Try not to upset the Lord and Master. And how
was I supposed to know that His Lordship was upset?
: Unfair? Perhaps, but very
: realistic - after all, it is his/her list - you didn't think a
: mailing list was a public forum, did you?
Will, I've been around the Net for a while. I know what's going on on a
variety of lists, as I subscribed to quite a few. Needless to say, I've
never been expelled before, never even come close. And this is precisely
the reason I'm rather concerned about the intellectual climate on Aztlan.
To tell the truth, I've never before seen such palpable fear and paranoia
about considering new ideas. Not only that, the fear of honest discussion
in general, I'd say. There was a real feeling of a certain oppressive
climate, that some subjects are taboo...
Isn't this whole thing about scholarship, Will? Aren't we supposed to be
objective? When was the last time I've posted here anything outside of
peer-reviewed scholarship? And look at all the abuse I get. This is how
they treat scholarship in general, it seems...
The fact that they CLEARLY AND OBVIOUSLY broke their own list rules to
get rid of me speaks for itself...
: > So what was the real reasons for my expulsion? I really don't know,
: > yet I do have my suspicions...
: So do I. You describe others postings as
: >unreasonable nitpicking
: for example - that's a quote from you, Yuri.
And why shouldn't I call the spade spade? You may have noticed that the
chap whose comments were so described never replied to me. Because I was
: My guess is that the listowner
: didn't like that, and kicked you off for this reason.
Well, you see, you don't have to guess. I can forward you the file with
all of my few posts to Aztlan. So you can see for yourself if I said
anything inappropriate. I certainly didn't. In fact I'll probably post
that file right here soon, so everyone can judge for themselves...
: If the rest of the
: subscribers to the list are still there, it seems like you're on your own,
: regardless of what they may say.
You see, Will, many of them also read s.a.m. They've seen my recent posts
about Aztlan. Why no replies or comments? Don't you think this speaks
volumes about the fear that pervades that list? Or perhaps about some
Now, just to clarify, I'm not about to judge people in a blanket way
because they don't want to get involved in this discussion. As I say, I
have a lot of respect for quite a number of scholars on Aztlan. Some of
them already told me privately about their thoughts. They do their best to
work in these difficult conditions because this is the field they
dedicated many years of their life to. They can't just pack their bags and
leave. They want to continue to work in the field, so they have to watch
what they say... So how can I judge the people who are unwilling to speak
up because of the very real danger of compromising their career? This
danger is no doubt real, as the group-think on Aztlan, and more generally
in this field as a whole, is obvious to all. Step out of line -- and see
the sky fall on you...
I don't even want to blame the moderator, Jim Cocks. He's doing his job,
and it's not an easy job -- for which he is not getting paid, most likely.
The decision that he made was made because of the pressure put upon him,
The reason why I'm writing this post is because I'm concerned about the
discipline as a whole, about the ruling dogmas so many of them genuflect
The sacred cows are all over the place in this field. The intolerance and
a lack of objectivity are obvious. I guess my expulsion made all this very
clear to me now, although I was never naive about this to start with. The
public at large should get informed about what's going on.
: I've participated in several discussions with you, Yuri, and you're
: an interesting chap - and I agree with some, but not all, of your
: points about transpacific contact (the sweet potato, for instance)
: but my guess still stands.
Well, as I say, you don't have to guess...
Yuri Kuchinsky | "Where there is the Tree of Knowledge, there
-=- | is always Paradise: so say the most ancient
in Toronto | and the most modern serpents." F. Nietzsche
----- my webpage is for now at: http://www.io.org/~yuku -----